Okay.
Sometime later I go to VQ silent surf, some necro wants to come along, I say sure, and he's got a rit build, and dischord trio. (of which most die because he just up and tackles a group of HM mobs when I'm telling him to move his *** as two larger groups of dragons are bearing down on us, which he doesn't...)
It seems like every time I get in a group, "Can I bring my heros?" Dischord trio.
"need some help?" Pulls out the dischord trio.
"need a date for the prom?" Dischord... well... you get the idea.
I understand that this IS an effective build in 2/3rd of the areas, but come ON!
Can't anyone use OTHER heros for stuff? Or come up with other synergistic builds?
On a side note, I am REALLY hoping that anet does a skill tweak, and makes it so all rit spirits become near worthless unless you have points in spawning.
I'm getting seriously sick and tired of everyone and their dog trying to be spirit spammers.
If you want to play a rit, MAKE a rit!
Swear to god, saw a freaking dirvish playing as a spirit spammer.
anyway, your turn. yell at me for being an idiot as per usual.
I just had to get this
off.|||I actually don't have much of a problem with the whole discord thing. It fails miserably in so many areas that it sort of balances out. People try to use it as a generic team build and it just does not work that way (unlike the similar sabway where only one necro can be rendered mostly useless or better yet replaced.) No, discord is not very efficient in my z-mission TPS Regulator Golem party. Discord has at least three different very common counters, which is pretty sad considering the uselessness of enemy AI.If someone insists on bringing discord heroes I 1) explain to them why they do not work in the current zone, or 2) leave to form a human party and tell people to bring whatever build they think will fit with the current team plan.|||Quote:
On a side note, I am REALLY hoping that anet does a skill tweak, and makes it so all rit spirits become near worthless unless you have points in spawning.
I'm getting seriously sick and tired of everyone and their dog trying to be spirit spammers.
If you want to play a rit, MAKE a rit!
Swear to god, saw a freaking dirvish playing as a spirit spammer.
I hope not since when I play SoS I only put 3 points into spawning - unless I bring DPS in which case those 3 points go into Resto.
On the subject of Disco:
1. heroes can't play physicals
2. heroes can't manage their energy
So we either resort to ritualist heroes because the long recharges of spirits prevent spamming thus removing the need for for energy management or/and we use classes that have completely broken e-management options - Soul Reaping or Ether Renewal.
Seriously, what would be these wondrous hero options that you are talking about that we aren't running?|||Quote:
1. heroes can't play physicals
They can if you plan around it. I love doing HM with between 5 and 8 physicals.
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2. heroes can't manage their energy
They can if you force them to. For example giving a para hero GFtEs as his only adrenaline skill.
But yes, it's a gigantic pain to get them to manage energy.|||Quote:
They can if you plan around it. I love doing HM with between 5 and 8 physicals.
I meant stuff like taking aggro, Frenzy-ing, not running around because they got hit by PBAoE or are standing in AoE, pathing issues, chaining skills, ...
My decision to VQ an area of the Desolation with assassin heroes (which I overbuffed with SoH and GDW) turned into a complete disaster and it took me forever to finish.
Comparatively there are less issues with other options.
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They can if you force them to. For example giving a para hero GFtEs as his only adrenaline skill.
I was mostly referring to caster issues and skills that double as e-management and how the AI is unable to see past the initial function of removing a hex, removing an ench, interrupting, ... or knowing that they shoudl spam OoS or understand that if they aren't in earshot of a spirit that SS won't return any energy, or how it's smart to keep Attunements up or ...
Since SR is passive they don't need to bother with that.|||well what got me about the one guy, was the fact that he didn't seem to even consider anything else.
When I asked him if he considered running MM, he sort of gave me a responce that made me think he thought I was brain damaged or something.
The thing is, a friend of mine who's a necro since the begining of the game understands how being a MM works.
They explained to me the key thing about being a dedicated MM is you can crank your death magic up to higher levels, and thus, get beefier minions, which helps reduce the damage they take from HM foes. The higher the minion, the less of a level difference between them, less damage, thus, they stay around a lot longer providing a better meatshield.
At one point they were able to crank out a level 32 golem, and level 24 minions. (not on a regular basis, but with enough +1's, anything is possible. Golden egg, candy corns, chalice of power, and shrine bonus, as well as a +1 offhand for 1 in 5 chance of higher minion)
The same goes for spirit spammers. The higher you can get your spirits up to, the beefier they are, the more damage they can do, and the less damage they'll take.
(have to admit to getting jealous seeing a level 16 disenchant that the irukindoji's crank out)
I can understand the need to have some of these builds as backups when no one else is around. But it's one thing when I have to work with another rit to make sure spirits don't overlap, it's another if I'm fighting against a ranger or a necro for spirits.
As for the dischord set... if the guy had listened to me, and held back when I said I needed to pull, and not rushed in, and then let 2 other groups, including a boss group come in and start wacking the crap out of us, we wouldn't have needed any rezzes, which no one brought.
I dunno. We're given a nice choice of heros to go traipsing through the game with, life should not begin and end with all the necros in your stable.|||Quote:
I meant stuff like taking aggro, Frenzy-ing, not running around because they got hit by PBAoE or are standing in AoE, pathing issues, chaining skills, ...
My decision to VQ an area of the Desolation with assassin heroes (which I overbuffed with SoH and GDW) turned into a complete disaster and it took me forever to finish.
Comparatively there are less issues with other options.
I get what you're saying, but for the sake of arguing I think these issues can be avoided to a large extent. Tiger Stance (in appropriate areas) works better than Flail and certainly Frenzy. When I did my 5 warrior, 1 SoH monk, 2 henchie monk experiments, flagging played an important part in getting the wars in before my henchie monks beat the level 30 dragons to death with their bare hands. Etc.|||I was sad to see Ursanway go, but admittedly it broke the entire game. Discordway makes many areas of the game loleasy, but as mentioned earlier, doesn't even work in some areas. I don't understand the animosity that it gets...The build is easy to set up, easy to run, and when used by someone who actually understands what they're doing, steamrolls pretty much any area. Henchman and hero AI has always worked better with casters, which is why Physicals have been neglected. Heck, the AI can't even do attack chains right! (I'm looking at you, Anton and Zenmai). I've used Discordway since it was posted on the guru, and I absolutely love it. Necromancer heroes are simply the best that the AI has to offer.
On a side note, I have been using my mesmer and ritualist heroes much more with recent updates.|||The damage output of discordway is rather poor. There are better options.|||Truth be told, I've found Discord to be overrated.........I mean, saying it can steam roll PVE isn't much. Hell, spirit spam can do that.
And with only one party slot taken up.
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